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Life Talk!

question about Jewish's roots

tomjan

tomjan

Poland

first: this thread is not created to justify Israel's actions in Gaza!

because of it if You want to share your angry,hate,distress or sympathy to one of the sides of this conflict please,please,please live this thread now before You read it.i have created this thread only to take some knowledge about Jewish history.


because I found many opinions like bellow i started to think about Jewish's roots.

Hakimi
May question also is what was this land call before established Israel state 1948..?

Lilimira
what i'm sure about is that israel is an intruder and a country created on a religious and a fanatic idea

Zeus2006
They wanted to create a new Country in Palastain

I have some knowledge from school but unfortunatelly not too reach… I remeber for example that i was learning about aliyahs.
Aliyah – return of the Jewish People from the exile in the Diaspora back to the Land of Israel.

So I started to think why all on this forum are writing that Israelians are intruders on this lands??? Did I missed something?

my first thaught was: "of course I have had to missed something – i have always been weak in history…"

second thaught: "so why Jewish was returning exactly to this land during each one aliyah? why they didn't returned for example to Kamchatka, Greenland or Australia?!?"

third thaught: "zionist must be based on local legend, Jewish must be only religion not ethnical group with their homeland"

fourth thaught: "lets check it out"

So, first of course I took the book, secondly I read wiki pages after that I made phone call to my brother in low which has studied history and is absolute guru for me in such subjects.

All three sourcess confirmed my so far knowledge. I will copy/paste  it from wiki because it is much faster than I create it myself. but it accords with all three sources which I checked out.

The origin of the Jews is traditionally dated to around the second millennium BCE to the patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The Merneptah Stele, dated to 1200 BCE, is one of the earliest archaeological records of the Jewish people in the Land of Israel, where Judaism, possibly the first monotheistic religion, developed over a period of thousands of years.

In 970 BCE, David's son Solomon became king of Israel

In 722 BCE the Assyrians conquered the Kingdom of Israel and exiled its Jews, starting a Jewish diaspora.

Defeats suffered by the Jews in the First revolt in 70 CE, the first of the Jewish-Roman Wars and the Bar Kokhba revolt in 135 CE notably contributed to the numbers and geography of the diaspora population

etc.etc.etc.


so my questions are:

are Jewish ethnical group / nation?
if yes, where are their homeland – their roots?

I hope that there are here some historican, ethnologist or some other expert in this subject which could answer my question.


tom

01:27 AM Dec 31 2008 |

hakimi

hakimi

Yemen

Hi tom you are good hunter.

The origin of the Jews is traditionally dated to around the second millennium BCE to the patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The Merneptah Stele, dated to 1200 BCE, is one of the earliest archaeological records of the Jewish people in the Land of Israel, where Judaism, possibly the first monotheistic religion, developed over a period of thousands of years.

3'rd millennium BC : The Canaanites were the earliest known inhabitants of Palestine. They became urbanized and lived in city-states, one of which was Jericho . They developed an alphabet. Palestine's location at the center of routes linking three continents made it the meeting place for religious and cultural influences from Egypt, Syria, Mesopotamia, and Asia Minor. It was also the natural battleground for the great powers of the region and subject to domination by adjacent empires, beginning with Egypt in the 3d millennium BC.

P.s in 1899 were 50.000 jews in Palestine and 500.000 Palestinian people .In Yemen were 100.000 jewish people in the same year ..still 20.000 here

to read more try this link..

http://www.palestinehistory.com/history/brief/brief.htm#01

03:55 AM Dec 31 2008 |

lilimira

lilimira

Algeria

hi tom,

there's a good book if you want to know how was it created.it's a novel called"o"jerusalem".it's a novel written by "dominique lapierre and larry collins".

the israelo -arab conflict is a complex one and this novel explains that complexity.

i also want to know is judaism a religion or a race?

 

04:42 AM Dec 31 2008 |

tomjan

tomjan

Poland

Hi Hakimi,

Thank You for pointing me to Canaanites civilization.Interesting/fascinating, I have to force my brother-in-law to find for me some good sources in library. I wish to have time machine to jump to 3000 bc to this region… & thank for the link.

 

Hi Lilimira,

Thank You for sharing. I'll try to find this book.

Hymm, it seems  that Jewish could be race, their ancestors seems to be some tribes from Mesopotamia. But I think (i don't know it) that most important component of Jewish national identity is religion.

 

tom 

05:24 AM Dec 31 2008 |

javamanju

javamanju

India

Initially most religion start with a perticular race. Islam with the "arab" race, Hindu/bhuddist with indian race. etc.

so yes, Jewish was initially a race of people who could have the same origin as the arabs. 

Judaism is a religion now. Today Jews are multi ethinic in nature. from black  to european to Indian

Intrestingly , the orginal jews were black/brown people. 

The Europeans(read whites, no offense meant) considered them  impure people because of their color and persecuted them. This could be the real start of racism.

 

07:59 AM Dec 31 2008 |

javamanju

javamanju

India

India was one of the place in the world where the Jews faced no anti-Semitic from the native community(except during Portuguese Inquisition of Goa and Bhamani Rule of Goa where jews and hindu's were mercilesly killed.)

there are five native Jewish communities in India:

  1. The Cochin Jews arrived in India 2,500 years ago and settled down in Cochin, Kerala as traders.
  2. The Bene Israel arrived in the state of Maharashtra 2,100 years ago.
  3. The Baghdadi Jews arrived in the city Mumbai from Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan, and Arab countries about 250 years ago.
  4. The Bnei Menashe are Mizo and Kuki tribesmen in Manipur and Mizoram who claim descent from the tribe of Menasseh.
  5. The Bene Ephraim (also called "Telugu Jews") are a small group who speak Telugu; their observance of Judaism dates to 1981
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_India

 

Bene Israel

 

 

 


Cochin Jew

Cochin Cemetery

Photo taken on Jew Town Road, Cochin across from Pardesi Synagogue.
Notice the Rabbi Nachman stickers on the motorbike.

Jewish cemetery in Cochin

 


08:14 AM Dec 31 2008 |

javamanju

javamanju

India

Interestingly term Semite refers broadly to speakers of a language group which includes both Arabs and Jews.

08:23 AM Dec 31 2008 |

javamanju

javamanju

India

and from what i have read so far, Palestinians were never ethnically Arabs but today they are called Arabs .  can any one tell me why that is?

08:27 AM Dec 31 2008 |

Luna_Darkness

Israel

Israel Fighting~!! 555+

11:12 AM Dec 31 2008 |

Radunagi

Radunagi

United States

In cases of identity generally it matters what people call themselves.  Jews consider themselves to be an ethnic group and a religion.

 

Anyway, on the history of that area of the world, Wikipedia is your friend.  

11:37 AM Dec 31 2008 |

hakimi

hakimi

Yemen

What Is Judaism?  Is it a Religion?
 Is it a Race?
 Is it a Culture?
 Is it a Nation?
 It is a Family Undecided 

Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz has suggested a better analogy for the Jewish people: We are a family. See the third essay in his recent book

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0787979155


What is "Jewish"?
Is being Jewish a race, nationality or religious identity?

Being Jewish is not a race because Jews do not share one common ancestry or biological distinction. People of many different races have become Jewish people over the years.

Being Jewish is not a nationality

Being Jewish is not a nationality because Jews have been existed throughout the world for almost two thousand years. People of many different nationalities are Jewish.

and by your turn try to get it ..Laughing

10:33 PM Dec 31 2008 |