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Life Talk!

Is atheism just an ignorance?

konstka

konstka

Russian Federation

10 years ago, in the summer of 1999, in Taganrog, the ceremony of canonization of Blessed Pavel of Taganrog took place. The shrine with his holy relics was carried across the town to the St. Nikolas Church where he was to have been canonized. I was an atheist and hadn't ever been taking part in any religious ceremonies. But in that day I was duty-bound to be there. It was a clearly sunny day. There were no clouds in the sky. At the moment the canonization started, about 10 a.m., around the sun appeared an aureole. I had never seen anything of the kind before. It was like a rainbow around the sun.  At that time the sky was absolutely clear. And another amazing thing—I could look at the sun without a sunglasses or any other protective tools. The phenomenon continued somewhere for an hour. I would never believe it if I hadn't seen it by my own eyes. It was said that later at 4 p.m. over the church in the sky clouds formed a cross, but I didn't watch it because I had left that place. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_of_Taganrog


You can see the pictures here

http://pravtv.ru/pavel-taganrogskij/73-kanonizacija-blazhennogo-pavla-taganrogskogo.html


Since, I believe that religion is not an abstraction that humanity invented to explain an incomprehensible things. I understood that there is something we can't explain now and this something is closely bound up with religion.

How atheists can explain this and many others signs?

Rejecting religion, atheists show their ignorance and incapability to comprehend the diversity of the universe, including religion as one of its aspects. 

Have anybody ever encountered or heard about such a signs?


08:51 PM Jun 15 2009 |

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Sawdestination

Mexico

Atheists always will have an explanation for such events: meteorologic phenomena, massive paranoia or stuff like that, so it would be difficult to make them change their mind.

Since we were given the capability to make choices, we are free to decide what religion we want to embrace or not embrace any of them.

09:28 PM Jun 15 2009 |

Sawdestination

Mexico

By the way, I´m catholic, my faith lets me believe in miracles. 

09:29 PM Jun 15 2009 |

konstka

konstka

Russian Federation

Yes, Sawdestination, you're right. They always explain any miracle by means of ordinary physical or psychical phenomena. It's easier to deny or ignore than accept  and try to comprehend and explain god existence. That's why I called atheists ignorant. They are blind by their unbelief and incapable to see obvious. 


04:51 AM Jun 16 2009 |

sunay

sunay

Turkey

Hi…

Why dont you describe it as an remarkable natural phenomenon than as something which is made by someone who is called God or what else. It isnt new that people are looking for reasons to understand what is sometimes happening in the nature. The human being is not still able to understand such phenomenon. Religions make it easy to describe it as it must be made by god. that s all, nothing more. Besides this belief hinders the way to understand. In that respect i am not agree with you that the atheism should just be an ignorant.
 

08:44 AM Jun 16 2009 |

konstka

konstka

Russian Federation

Hi sunay,

Why dont you describe it as an remarkable natural phenomenon than as something which is made by someone who is called God or what else.


Of course, I could classify this phenomenon as a remarkable natural phenomenon. In fact, since we could see this phenomenon, no doubt, it was an optical phenomenon. But what did cause this phenomenon? In this case there was an obvious cause-effect relation between this phenomenon and another event – canonization. The probability that this phenomenon was a pure accident is least. Thus I can assert that that phenomenon was caused by the canonization – a religious ceremony. 


The human being is not still able to understand such phenomenon. Religions make it easy to describe it as it must be made by god. that s all, nothing more. Besides this belief hinders the way to understand. In that respect i am not agree with you that the atheism should just be an ignorant.


Yes, you are right. Religion stubbornly states that everything is created by god, giving no explanation and preventing from understanding of the point of the issue. On the other hand, atheism stubbornly denying god existence interrupts such a kind of cause-effect relations I mentioned above. And either simply ignores the fact or studies only a physical aspect of the issue. In its turn also preventing from correct understanding of the issue. Theists and atheists are equally negative charged particles that move apart and there must be a positive charged nucleus to stabilize the system. So I consider that both are equally ignorant in respect of the issue. 

Taking religion's side, first of all I wanted to find out the atheists' opinion as a potential opponents. But it seems they cannot say nothing besides 'I don't believe.'

 

05:14 PM Jun 16 2009 |

sunay

sunay

Turkey

Hi Konstka,

Why is there an cause-reaction effect when two things are happening at the same time. I remember that I once sang a song and then a rain started. Was this magic? Was is god?
There is a big difference in the ignorance of theists and atheists (yes, atheists are ignorant, too!): atheists want to find explanations for what they dont understand while theists dont want to find explanations – they just declare they know that the explanation is god. With this lack of curiosity there will be a stagnation in knowledge. As far as I know there is no medicine which was invented just by praying; laws of physics were not told by god but by humans that have been curious, and so on…

07:14 PM Jun 16 2009 |

konstka

konstka

Russian Federation

Why is there an cause-reaction effect when two things are happening at the same time. I remember that I once sang a song and then a rain started. Was this magic? Was is god?


At the religious point of view, yes, because any natural phenomenon, including a rain, is a god's deed. :)

How often do you see the phenomenon I described? I think you have never seen it.

How often do you see a rain? It depend on the weather. But sometimes every day.

How often are people canonized? Very rare.

How often do you sing? I don't know I hope more often.

Then count a probability of coincidence of these events.

I think in the first case it tends to zero.

You think these events aren't interrelated?


There is a big difference in the ignorance of theists and atheists (yes, atheists are ignorant, too!): 


Forget about ignorance. It doesn't depend on whether you're theist or atheist.  


atheists want to find explanations for what they dont understand while theists dont want to find explanations – they just declare they know that the explanation is god. With this lack of curiosity there will be a stagnation in knowledge. As far as I know there is no medicine which was invented just by praying; laws of physics were not told by god but by humans that have been curious, and so on… 


I disagree with you. An atheist differ from a theist only in their belief in god. An atheist doesn't believe in god when a theist believe. And that's all. The thirst for knowledge, for discovery, curiosity etc depends on person. Be you theist, be you atheist, if you have no desire for knowledge, for understanding then nothing will help you. If it has been as you said, there would be no discoveries, no inventions, there would be no math, no physics, there would be nothing because in ancient times there were no atheists. 


10:13 PM Jun 16 2009 |

Lord_P

Australia

It is an unfortunate fact that Religion has perverted human history, development and science. It is both contradictory and dangerous.

 

I understood that there is something we can't explain now and this something is closely bound up with religion.

How atheists can explain this and many others signs?

Rejecting religion, atheists show their ignorance and incapability to comprehend the diversity of the universe, including religion as one of its aspects.

There is nothing we cannot understand indifinitely. Once, people said lightning was created by zues, simply because they lacked a scientific explanation for it. They said earthquakes were caused by Hades, also because they lacked explanations. Instead of stating, that they do not know why it happened and trying to find out the causes, they place it all ignorantly on a superior being. 

Your argument holds out the same, 3000 years ago, people asked non-believers what does 'lightning' mean, how can the non-believer explain lightning. Following religions faulty logic, since no one could explain it means Zues exists. Today people laugh at their ignorance, and arrogantly make the same mistakes. People assign meanings to natural occurences. 

For example, the 2004 tsunami that hit Eastern Indo-China, was blamed by the uneducated people living there that it was Gods punishment for the sins of the world. They couldn't comprehend that it was just a tsunami, created by tremors through earths plate tectonics. However, should we have lacked the scientific basis of plate tectonics, religion would waste no time spreading ignorance among the people saying it was Gods work.

Whenever something new happens, it is the scientists that say they do not understand, but wish to do so and thus begin researching. Religion pronounces it knows it was the work of God. 

At the religious point of view, yes, because any natural phenomenon, including a rain, is a god's deed. :)

The universe is governed by laws. You can call it Gods deed, but it is no more Gods deed than the wind blowing, or water being created from Hydrogen and Oxygen atoms. There are laws which can never be broken. You cannot defy gravity. You can pray all you want, the book will always fall to earth when you let go. One would think that an omniscient God would be able to go against mere laws he created. Apparently not. 

Be you theist, be you atheist, if you have no desire for knowledge, for understanding then nothing will help you. If it has been as you said, there would be no discoveries, no inventions, there would be no math, no physics, there would be nothing because in ancient times there were no atheists. 

Theists believe that God created all, that evolution is false, and the contemporary argument of the theologists is that the earth is less than 10,000 years old. Disregarding all science and evidence, they defend their point of view simply because it is written in their holy book (which was written by humans). 

In ancient times, there may not have been any atheists, but neither were their theists blindly holding to their limited faith. Greek religion did not prohibit people from explaining that the earth revolved around the sun, nor did it hinder other areas of research such as contemporary religions do. There were no central churches that told people what to believe, Zues did not exist because churches spread his name, he existed simply because it was common sense at the time that he existed. Common sense today tells us that he does not.

Do you believe in Zues? Hades? Aries? Amon Ra? Anubis? Thor? Krom? Gilgamesh? Yahweh? Allah?

The only difference between me and you, is that I don't believe in one extra God. Yours. If you understand why you denounce all other Gods in favour of your own, you will understand why others denounce your God.

Also incase it was missed, the majority of scientists are indeed atheist, or practice Einsteinian Atheism. 

 

"To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin."    — Cardinal Bellarmine (1615, during the trial of Galileo).

12:21 PM Jun 18 2009 |

konstka

konstka

Russian Federation

I'd like to clarify my point.

In the first place, I don't believe in god, at least the way religious people believe.

There is the extraordinary phenomenon, I described in my post.

This phenomenon is directly bound up with religious ceremony, in other words with god. It's a fact. And it's silly to disclaim this fact. So there is something that really exist. It exists independently whether believe you or not. It's an objective reality. So this fact and other similar facts have to be investigated. Through the centuries religion has been used for the purpose to fool the people, using people's ignorance. I agree with it. But nowadays, an atheists do almost the same. To hide their ignorance, they simply reject all the things concerning god, ignoring the facts. In my opinion, it's equally negative for correct understanding the things. We have to abstract away from the bullshit people's ignorance brought to religion and find how religion is bound with the laws of the universe. Perhaps, we have to separate religion from the rules of law, rules of moral, most religions contain. Investigating religion and scientifically explaining its essence we can come up to unifying all religions and accepting it as a set of scientific laws and maybe even as another field of science. 


"To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin." — Cardinal Bellarmine (1615, during the trial of Galileo). 


I think we don't have to make the same mistakes.


05:17 PM Jun 19 2009 |

Coryn

United Kingdom

I personally am an atheist but I have studdied many different religions &, while I do not have faith, I would personally love to.

As an atheist I believe there is a reasonable explanation for most "miracles" & so I'm afriad I cannot bring myself to believe this was an act of some "god". I doubt I would see it as a miracle even if I had been there, but that is just me & my point of view & everyone is entitled to their own.

However, As neither Atheists or Theists can actually prove their points of view I feel it is wrong to describe either as "Ignorant", and I certainly would never do so. Until you can prove your beliefs 100%, you have no right to call anyone else ignorant because they have different views from you.

So maybe atheism is just ignorance, but the again, maybe theism is. We just don't know & I'd appreciate it if you didn't go around denouncing others' beliefs.

Thank you.

09:09 PM Feb 01 2010 |