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Life Talk!

Prophet Muhammad in Bible Old Testament

07:04 AM Jun 29 2009 | Reply

guest125

India

The Qur’an mentions in Surah Al-Araf chapter 7 verse 157:

 "Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures) in the law and the Gospel".

Prophet Muhammad, prophesised in the Book of Deuteronomy:
 

Almighty God speaks to Moses in Book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18:

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
 

The Christians say that this prophecy refers to Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) was like Moses (pbuh). Moses (pbuh) was a Jew, as well as Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew. Moses (pbuh) was a Prophet and Jesus (pbuh) was also a Prophet.
 

If these two are the only criteria for this prophecy to be fulfilled, then all the Prophets of the Bible who came after Moses (pbuh) such as Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist, etc. (pbut) will fulfill this prophecy since all were Jews as well as prophets.
 

However, it is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is like Moses (pbuh):
 

  • Both had a father and a mother, while Jesus (pbuh) was born miraculously without any male intervention.
    [Mathew 1:18 and Luke 1:35 and also Al-Qur'an 3:42-47]
     

  • Both were married and had children. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not marry nor had children.
     

  • Both died natural deaths. Jesus (pbuh) has been raised up alive. (4:157-158)
     

Muhammad (pbuh) is from among the brethren of Moses (pbuh). Arabs are brethren of Jews. Abraham (pbuh) had two sons: Ishmail and Isaac (pbut). The Arabs are the descendants of Ishmail (pbuh) and the Jews are the descendants of Isaac (pbuh).

Words in the mouth:
 

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was unlettered and whatever revelations he received from Almighty God he repeated them verbatim.

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." [Deuteronomy 18:18]
 

  • Both besides being Prophets were also kings i.e. they could inflict capital punishment. Jesus (pbuh) said, "My kingdom is not of this world." (John 18:36).
     

  • Both were accepted as Prophets by their people in their lifetime but Jesus (pbuh) was rejected by his
    people. John chapter 1 verse 11 states, "He came unto his own, but his own received him not."
     

  • Both brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not bring any new laws. (Mathew 5:17-18).

  • It is Mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 18:19

    "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not harken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will     require it of him."
     

  • Muhammad (pbuh) is prophesised in the book of Isaiah:


    It is mentioned in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12:

    "And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."
     

    When Archangel Gabrail commanded Muhammad (pbuh) by saying Iqra – "Read", he replied, "I am not learned".
     

  • Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) mentioned by name in the old testament:
     

    Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16:
     

    "Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."
     

    "His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem."
     

    In the Hebrew language im is added for respect. Similarely im is added after the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to make it Muhammadim. In English translation they have even translated the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as "altogether lovely", but in the Old Testament in Hebrew, the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is yet present.

  • 07:33 AM Jun 29 2009 | Reply

    arabhamid

    arabhamid

    Algeria

    Yeahhh, we don't have to hide the true, even we don't like it.

    Prophet mohamed was expected and metioned in the Judaism and Christianity.

     

    because mission of the prophet Moses and Jesus was limited for group of people and time, but prophet Mohamed was sent to all mankind, for all times, and in all places.

     

    I hope that believers get thr true way, not because that is in our interests, but for them, and for their next life.

     

    because in the judgement day, it wouldn't be acceptible only Islam as a religion.

     

    we're doing our role, and we transmit the messenge for all people, and they look for the true and choose.

     

    Our mission stop in telling the true and transmit it, and the result if from the God.

    09:06 AM Jun 29 2009 | Reply

    fabs1

    fabs1

    United Kingdom

    Song of Songs 5:16
    "His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem."

     

    Problem:
    The underlined word is the Hebrew Machmaddim. Moslems claim that this word is a reference to Muhammad for two reasons,
    1. The word Machmad (singular of Machmaddim) sounds a bit like the name Muhammad
    2. The word Machmad means The praised one (i.e. the one worthy of praise); this, they assert, must be Muhammad!

       

    Solution:
    1. The logic of the assertion that the word Machmad is Muhammad because the two words sound a bit similar is somewhat specious. The name John sounds a bit like the Arabic Jinn, but there is no connection between the two. Similarly a connection on the grounds that the word means "the praised one" falls short of a guaranteed logical link; has only one person in the world ever been praised?

       

    2. The context of the passage identifies the person described as Machmad as someone in the time of Solomon (Song 3:11) who is loved by a Shulamite (Song 6:13). He is red-haired (Song 5:10). None of these descriptions fits Muhammad who never visited Shunem in his life.

       

    3. A search of all the occurrences of the word Machmad in the Bible shows that the word has nothing to do with praise. It simply refers to whatever is desirable for whatever reason and is derived from the root chamad which means desire.

       

    4. If one is to accept that the word Machmad refers to Muhammad then one should look at all the occurrences of that word. When one does this one can see why only the occurrence in the Song of Solomon is cited by Moslems. The others tell one that Machmad was destroyed (2 Chron. 36:19), was to be laid waste (Isa. 64:10-11), has been taken captive by an enemy (Lam. 1:10), has been traded for food (Lam. 1:11), has been slain by God (Lam. 2:4; Hos. 9:16), has been removed by God (Ezek. 24:16), is to be profaned by God (Ezek. 24:21), is to be buried in nettles (Hos. 9:6) and been carried away by pagans into their temples (Joel 3:5). Even an unkind person would not attribute all these things to Muhammad.

    09:07 AM Jun 29 2009 | Reply

    fabs1

    fabs1

    United Kingdom

    Is Mohammed Mentioned in Song of Songs?

    "He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a G-d of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he."
    Deuteronomy 32:4 (KJV)

    Claim: Mohammed Is Mentioned In Song of Songs

    Another claim is made that in the book Song of Songs (Also called Song of Solomon), the coming of Mohammed is prophesied.

    The verse in question (translation is the author's) is as follows:

    Song of Songs 5:16 His mouth is most sweet; and he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem.

    The assertion is that chapter 5 is a prophecy of a prophet yet to come. But, if we take a look at a transliteration of the Hebrew text we will see what the real principle of the matter is:

    Chiku mamtakim v'khulo machamadim zeh dodi v'zeh re'i b'not yerushalayim.

    If you look at the word "machamadim" we can start to see the issue. Mohammed is a name that comes from the Hebrew root of "lovely" or "cute" or "desirable" and as such, Muslims try to use the word "lovely" in each instance to refer to Mohammed. These Muslims are making it so we can't use our own language without it somehow being a prophecy.

    But That's Not The Word!

    The word used is machamadim, the plural form of machamad.

    If we follow the Muslim way of translating this sentence, we would produce the following:

    His mouth is most sweet; and he is altogether Mohammeds. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem.

    It doesn't make any sense.

    Conclusion

    One who asserts that Mohammed is mentioned in the Song of Songs ignores the most simple reading of the text and has probably never even looked at the Hebrew of the text.

     

    http://www.messiahtruth.com/songs.html

    09:07 AM Jun 29 2009 | Reply

    fabs1

    fabs1

    United Kingdom

    Claim: The Torah Itself Predicts Mohammed as a Prophet

    Many Muslims will claim that the Torah itself (apparently the "uncorrupted" part) predicts the coming of their so-called prophet some time after the giving of the Torah. All Bible translations are directly from the Hebrew, all of them literal.

    Where Did They Get That Idea?

    The relevant verse of the Torah is as follows:
    Deuteronomy 18:18 A prophet I will raise up for them from amongst their brethren like you and I will give my words into his lips and he will speak about them all that I command him.

    We must ask the following: who is "I", who is "you", who is "them/their"? "I" is G-d, "you" is Moses, "them/their" refers to the Israelites.

    So a paraphrase could be: G-d will raise up for the Israelites a prophet from the Israelites' brethren some time in the future that will be like Moses and speak the words of G-d.

    Having established that, what's the connection?

    The assertion is that "from amongst their brethren" refers to the Ishmaelites, and as Muslims assert many times, Mohammed is descended from Abraham through Ishmael.

    In order to properly analyze this, I will not make a table comparing Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed, as many do on both Christian and Muslim websites in order to pervert the meaning of this verse.

    Instead, I will make a minor sidestep into the world of Jewish thought.

    For those of us that do not have the presumption that the Torah is wrong and faulty, there is a list of thirteen basic rules on how to deduce meaning from the Torah. They are provided as the introduction to Sifre, and are recited in the preliminary portion of the daily morning prayers.

    Just as in the Torah where there are laws that are obviously "just" and those that we cannot comprehend, a parallel applies here. Some rules make sense, and others are assertions of rules. I will make use of two rules that make a good deal of sense.

    Rule number 2 states quite simply "mig'zerah shavah" which means "From a decree of equality".

    Rule number 12 is that "davar halamed m'inyano, v'davar halamed m'sofo" which is often translated like "An item is taught/clarified from it's context, or from nearby verses."

    Why these two rules? Rule number 2 tells us that if we have a word in one location that is vague, and the same word elsewhere more clear, we can use one to clarify the other. The reason for the second rule will be evident shortly.

    The Rebuttal

    Just a chapter back, in Deuteronomy 17, we find a similar phrase, but the voice is different. This time Moses is delivering a message from G-d directly to the Israelites, speaking to the Israelites as a single group, instead of us hearing what G-d says to Moses.

    Deuteronomy 17:15 You shall put (appoint) upon yourself a king that G-d will pick him; from amongst your brethren you shall appoint a king; you will not be able to give upon yourself a foreign man that is not your brother.

    This verse, just a chapter behind the verse about the prophet is quite explicit. It uses the phrase "amongst (their/your) brethren" and then clarifies that a foreigner, which is definitely a non-Israelite, is not the Israelite's brother.

    For further explicitness of the term foreigner, let's turn to Exodus 12.

    Exodus 12:43 And G-d said to Moses and Aaron: This is the ordinance of the Passover offering, every son of a foreigner shall not eat of it.

    Conclusion

    Since we can now see that a foreigner does not take part of something as central as the Passover celebration, which is incumbant on all Israelite males when the Temple stands, we can see that a foreigner is simply a non-Israelite, and it doesn't matter their genealogy.

    That being said, we have also shown that a foreigner is someone who is not from "amongst the brethren" of the Israelites.

    This being said, it is an incredible leap of both faith and logic to assume that Mohammed the Ishmaelite is predicted by the Torah as coming as a new prophet of a new religion for the Jews.

     

    http://www.messiahtruth.com/islam18.html

    09:08 AM Jun 29 2009 | Reply

    fabs1

    fabs1

    United Kingdom

    It is mentioned in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12:

    "And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."

     

    It probably helps to look at the rest of the passage, which is clearly an allegory for the way prophesy is transmitted, not a literal description of what is going to happen:

    'To you all the true prophecy is like the words of a sealed document, which one gives to a literate person, saying, 'Please read this', and he says, 'I cannot, for it is sealed'. Then the document is given to an illiterate person, saying ' Please read this'. and he says 'I am not literate'. (Isaiah 29:11-12)

     

    The other thing one has to ask is: If the Muslims believe that the holy books are corrupted, how is it that somehow, these tiny details inside these 'corrupted' books are apparently proof of Mohammed?

    And if these parts were uncorrupted, telling of his coming, why would he have needed to come to clarify anything at all?

    07:01 AM Jul 02 2009 | Reply

    guest125

    India

    More than fourteen centuries have passed since the prophet of Arabia made claim to being the last and final 'messenger and slave' of Allah. Yet the intensity of discussion amongst scholars from all religions seems to have increased over the years and gained in volocity in the last few years more so than ever before.

    Who was this man? What do his followers believe about him? How can others understand their undying devotion to his mission? What do the scholars tell us about this man, Muhammad, peace be upon him, and his 'message' to the world?

    For more than fourteen centuries scholars from Judaism, Christianity and Islam have been discussing whether or not the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, could have indeed, been a true prophet from Almighty God.

    Was he the long awaited 'Messiah' the Jews have been waiting for so many centuries?

    Was he the one prophesied in the Old Testament Book of Isaiah, calling in the wilderness

    Was he 'That Prophet' mentioned in the New Testament Gospel of John?

    We would like to share some of the findings of these scholars from their own sources and invite the reader to consider these evidences.

    The most recent claim of revelation coming from the God of Abraham, Moses, David and Jesus, peace be upon them, is the claim of Muhammad, peace be upon him, regarding the Quran. The Quran makes the claim, Muhammad, peace be upon him, is the 'slave and messenger' of Almighty God.

    But more importantly pertaining to our subject at hand, the Quran makes the claim that Muhammad, peace be upon him, is mentioned by name in the previous revelations (meaning the Bible). Can this claim be substantiated?

    Let us begin by examining the statement in the Quran contained in the 61st chapter (As-Saff [the ranks]), verse 6:

    61:6
    And when Jesus said; "O Children of Israel! I am the apostle of God (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving glad tidings of an apostle to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." [61:6]

    Please take notice of the name mentioned, 'Ahmad'. This is one of the most common of several names given to the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, by his own people.

    Now let us turn to the Old Testament (Torah of the Jews) and notice the book called Songs of Solomon, chapter 5, verse 16:

    His mouth is very sweet;
    he is totally desirable.33
    This is my beloved!
    This is my companion, O maidens of Jerusalem!
    Check the footnote (33) to discovere what the word was BEFORE it was translated as "totally desirable" and in some versions of the translations we find, "altogether lovely."

    (makhmaddim, “desirable”) is the plural form of the noun (makhmad, “desire, desirable thing, precious object”; (see below note #33)

    It is asserted that this word "Makhmaddim" is in reality the word "Akhmad" or "AHmad". The reason for the emphasis on the "kh" sound is to prounouce the very hard "H" sound of the two types of "h" in the Semetic languages.

    There is a word used in a passage of the New Testament of the Bible, located in the Gospel of John, chapter 14, verse 16, that many Muslim scholars refer to as pointing to the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. Let us review it and then observe what non-Muslim scholars comment about it.

    14:15 “If you love me, you will obey34 my commandments.35

    14:16 Then36 I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate37 to be with you forever—

    14:17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot accept,38 because it does not see him or know him. But you know him, because he resides39 with you and will be40 in you.

    07:02 AM Jul 02 2009 | Reply

    guest125

    India

    Old Testament Song of Solomon 5:16 note 33tn

    The term (makhmaddim, “desirable”) is the plural form of the noun dmj=m (makhmad, “desire, desirable thing, precious object”; HALOT 570 s.v. 1; BDB 326 s.v.). Like the plural (“sweetness”) in the preceding parallel line, this use of the plural is probably an example of the plural of intensity: “very desirable.”

    34tn Or “will keep.”
    35sn Jesus’ statement If you love me, you will obey my commandments provides the transition between the promises of answered prayer which Jesus makes to his disciples in vv. 13-14 and the promise of the Holy Spirit which is introduced in v. 16. Obedience is the proof of genuine love.
    36tn Here kaiv (kai) has been translated as “Then” to reflect the implied sequence in the discourse.


    37tn Or “Helper” or “Counselor”; Grk “Paraclete,” from the Greek word paravklhto" (paraklhto"). Finding an appropriate English translation for paravklhto" is a very difficult task. No single English word has exactly the same range of meaning as the Greek word. “Comforter,” used by some of the older English versions, appears to be as old as Wycliffe. But today it suggests a quilt or a sympathetic mourner at a funeral. “Counselor” is adequate, but too broad, in contexts like “marriage counselor” or “camp counselor.” “Helper” or “Assistant” could also be used, but could suggest a subordinate rank. “Advocate,” the word chosen for this translation, has more forensic overtones than the Greek word does, although in John 16:5-11 a forensic context is certainly present. Because an “advocate” is someone who “advocates” or supports a position or viewpoint and since this is what the Paraclete will do for the preaching of the disciples, it was selected in spite of the drawbacks.


    38tn Or “cannot receive.”
    39tn Or “he remains.”
    40tc Some early and important witnesses (Ì66* B D* W 1 565 it) have ejstin (estin, “he is”) instead of e[stai (estai, “he will be”) here, while other weighty witnesses ({Ì66c,75vid Í A D1 L Q Y Ë13 33vid Ï as well as several versions and fathers}), read the future tense. When one considers transcriptional evidence, ejstin is the more difficult reading and better explains the rise of the future tense reading, but it must be noted that both Ì66 and D were corrected from the present tense to the future. If ejstin were the original reading, one would expect a few manuscripts to be corrected to read the present when they originally read the future, but that is not the case.

    When one considers what the author would have written, the future is on much stronger ground. The immediate context (both in 14:16 and in the chapter as a whole) points to the future, and the theology of the book regards the advent of the Spirit as a decidedly future event (see, e.g., 7:39 and 16:7). The present tense could have arisen from an error of sight on the part of some scribes or more likely from an error of thought as scribes reflected upon the present role of the Spirit. Although a decision is difficult, the future tense is most likely authentic. For further discussion on this textual problem, see James M. Hamilton, Jr., “He Is with You and He Will Be in You” (Ph.D. diss., The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, 2003), 213-20.

    07:39 AM Jul 02 2009 | Reply

    Djouzi

    Djouzi

    Algeria

    Guest125: maybe you are a muslim from India

    I wonder if you can answer me something

    is it true that  Mohamed(SAW) is prophesied in the Veda ?

    I heard and read many times about that.

     

    sorry for the interruption of the subject 

    10:51 AM Jul 02 2009 | Reply

    fabs1

    fabs1

    United Kingdom

    "Now let us turn to the Old Testament (Torah of the Jews) and notice the book called Songs of Solomon, chapter 5, verse 16:"

    The Torah is comprised of the Five Books of Moses.

    The Songs of Solomon is not apart of the Torah.

    Do the writers of these things you people copy and paste even know what they're talking about?

     

    "For more than fourteen centuries scholars from Judaism, Christianity and Islam have been discussing whether or not the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, could have indeed, been a true prophet from Almighty God."

    Not really. I think Jews and Christians both reject him as a false prophet.

     

    11:15 AM Jul 02 2009 | Reply

    javamanju

    javamanju

    India

    is it true that  Mohamed(SAW) is prophesied in the Veda ?

    some one will obviously claim that. there is a post on that as well.

    http://www.englishbaby.com/forum/LifeTalk/thread/257171