Learn English with English, baby!

Join for FREE!

Social_nav_masthead_logged_in

English Forums

Use our English forums to learn English. The message boards are great for English questions and English answers. The more you contribute, the more all members can practice English!

:  

Life Talk!

Creationism

WobblyJoe

WobblyJoe

United States

I just read an article in which Bill Nye, of the tv show Bill Nye the Science Guy fame, says only Americans still believe in Creationism. Is that so? Does anyone else believe that?


Before I am assaulted by the Evolutionist hordes let me remind you that in my lifetime, everything I was taught about evolution (not natural selection) has been revised. The origins of man fell apart after DNA analysis and the age of the Earth has been quadrupled. Apparently carbon dating isn’t quite as spot on as we were previously assured. Gravity is a theory because we don’t know how it works, gravity itself is a fact. That the world exists is a fact, how it got here is a theory, even if some scientist says otherwise. As long as “the theory of evolution” continues to evolve and find outright errors in what it previously considered “fact”, it’s pretty arrogant to assume Creation never happened, especially since the whole theory is based on a 19th century view of time.


So what do you think? Anyone?

05:05 PM Aug 28 2012 |

Go to the TOEFL® page >

gibsea

gibsea

France

Hello,


I think all fundamentalists believe in creationism. In the USA there are many Christians fundamentalists, rare in France and Europe. But there are fundamentalists Muslims and Jews also believe in creationism. This is a rather recent phenomenon in France, this is a problem in schools, some students argue against teachers. Incredible in France a few years ago …

01:21 AM Aug 29 2012 |

WobblyJoe

WobblyJoe

United States

Here’s the link: http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/27/bill-nye-slams-creationism/


I don’t have a problem with the schools not teaching Creationism, I wouldn’t want that either, I have a problem with adamant evolutionists who insist evolution be taught as scientific truth, even though everything my teachers swore was true about evolution in 1970 has since been proven false. Yet these ‘scientists’ proclaim the new facts are facts for all time and teach them as such. The problem is even more apparent if one compares the science textbooks of say every 20 years for the last 100. So apparently I’m part of the crazy 50% of Americans who think it’s arrogant to rule out a Creator. I’m wondering if Bill Nye was right, if we pretty much were the last. I doubt it but I don’t know. Hope that clears things up.

03:44 AM Aug 29 2012 |

gibsea

gibsea

France

The scientific thought process in stages; often new techniques improve ideas but do not alter. The ideas of the 70s are not wrong, they are simply replaced by the new more precise, which will be replaced by the following …
The basis of the theory of evolution is true; however it is refined by the new knowledge. An example: We thought that when Homo Sapiens came out of Africa 70 000 years ago, it’s couldn’t be fecundation with Neanderthals found in Europe and Asia since 240 000 years. The DNA sequencing of Neanderthals shows that modern humans have 4% Neanderthal DNA, except in Africa because there has never been a Neanderthal (a team from the Max Planck Institute in Leipzig in 2010 under the direction of Svante Pääbo). The theory of evolution remains correct, except that we are a mix of Neanderthal and Homo Sapiens (except in Africa 100% Homo Sapiens).

10:39 AM Aug 29 2012 |

WobblyJoe

WobblyJoe

United States

Yes perhaps, but in my youth we were taught that all humanity decended from neanderthal, cro-magnon, all of them. A pretty little stack of humans. Instead, we lived contemporary with them. But that isn’t what was taught then. Back then they were our ancestors. Same with the age of the world, it can  all be called a refinement, but given the alleged accuracy of Carbon dating, it could also just be called wrong in the first place.  Therefore I wonder why it’s so critical to teach children what is actually more of a premise until it finds some facts that support the unique parts of evolutionism and not the parts in comon with Creation stories. So does anyone except Americans still believe in Creation. Not neccessarily a Biblical account, any kind of Creation. It probably sounds crazy if you are part of the world that Bill Nye likes, but it’s a common thread of thought here.

03:36 PM Aug 29 2012 |

gibsea

gibsea

France

For scientists, the simplest theory is usually the best. And the theory of evolution is really simple if you understand the mechanism. The stages of the life are easily explained. But what creationism? Difficult concept for an European!
It seems that in the USA there are many theories of creationism … Some believe that the Earth is 6000 years-old. Others believe in Adam and Eve … Noe … it’s amazing for a French.

08:23 AM Aug 30 2012 |

WobblyJoe

WobblyJoe

United States

Well I thank you for your input. I find it equally amazing that evolution is simpler than creation for a European, assuming the mechanism you refer to is natural selection which is a common thread in both theories. I think Adam and Eve and 6000 years old might be from the same story. At least, I would expect anyone who believed the earth 6000 years old would believe the story of Adam and Eve.


Which reminds me, who was more surprised to find out DNA traced human biology to a mitochondrial EVe and patralenial Adam, the creationists or the evolutionists? The idea that all humanity had a common ancestor, both male and female, wasn’t what my science teachers taught back then, but it was what the book taught. Things like that are why at least some Americans believe as we do and don’t feel stupid about it. It’s a big leap from “we are decended from neaderthal” to “neaderthal was one of our ancestors”.

10:55 AM Aug 30 2012 |

gibsea

gibsea

France

Some errors should be mentioned : our ancestor wasn’t Neanderthal, he disappears without descendant… And we are not descended from one or two persons, but from a group of a thousand people came out of Africa 70,000 years ago. The natural selection isn’t the only motor of the evolution, the sexual selection is more importante. Recent genetic studies of the world’s population can specify the human history. And this story is superb, we now know almost the totality of the pages of the book of the human life.

03:53 PM Aug 31 2012 |

WobblyJoe

WobblyJoe

United States

The National Geographic said DNA studies have identified our common male and female ancestor, not hundreds, one each. And you’re right that we are not decended from Neandertal, my textbooks in the ‘60s and ‘70s said otherwise. Those ”scientists” were just plain wrong though they established that ‘truth’ in our courts to obtain admission to our schools. Neither natural selection or sexual selection is evolution. They are part of normal life. They may or may not result in changes, the changes may or may not result in changes. Almost half the “individual” species identified by scientists have been reclassified as merely variants within a species. But my question was only who believes and who doesn’t. I’ll mark France down as a “does believe almost exclusively in evolution”. Unless you’re enjoying debate, in which case, I’ll debate you on this. But otherwise, I wasn’t trying to convert the masses, only to find out if it’s really as uncommon as Bill Nye said.


Consider that you have been taught that evolution is true and just accept it without scrutiny. Animals like sharks, coelacanths, alligators and many insects haven’t changed. Even in the exact same environment as those who “evolved” and regardless of whether they were at the top of their respective food chains or the bottom. I remain unconvinced that evolution is sufficiently developed to be taught as fact in classes below high school. Just my opinion and why. I am surprised that apparently no Muslims believe. They are so fanatical I thought they’d have an opinion here.


How did Neaderthal disappear without heir? You said 4% of non-African DNA was neaderthal. Meaning as I said, we weren’t decended from as I was taught, we were contemporary as you were taught, a HUGE difference. Here’s a link to an article on the Geographic site.


http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2006/03/human-journey/shreeve-text/2


Yes, it doesn’t prove up Biblical creation. As long as they cling to a 19th c view of time it wont. But it does identify the common ancestors, which is miles from what we were taught just 40 years ago, and even further from what was taught 80 years ago. Facts don’t normally change, just the “facts” which support evolution seem to.

04:21 PM Aug 31 2012 |

gibsea

gibsea

France

It’s not only in France but in all Europe that everyone believes in evolution, as well as Muslims. Only fundamentalists believe in creationism, fundamentalist Muslims, fundamentalist Jews and fundamentalist Christians.


Sharks, coelacanths, alligators have not evolved for millions of years because they are perfectly adapted to their environment. Men evolved rapidly because they had to adapt to a difficult environment for them. Some animals are also evolving rapidly. Changes are not linear.


Modern humanity comes from a group of a thousand people leaving Africa 70,000 years ago (Homo Sapiens). It is a fact recently established by genetics. Europe and Asia were already populated by groups leaving also Africa 1 million years ago(approximately). Neanderthal is a descendant of the initial “Europeans”. They had no descendants. But after 30,000 years to live together, 4% Neanderthal genes are passed in Homo Sapiens. Africans have 100% Homo sapiens genes. In 70,000 years Homo sapiens colonized the entire planet.

05:31 PM Aug 31 2012 |

WobblyJoe

WobblyJoe

United States

Assuming everything you say is true, none of it is what I was taught as fact in school. Does science bear no responsibility or can they just continually update the theory to fit whatever facts come along, even knowing that the next round of technology will prove all they said wrong. And saying something is so when it’s not is wrong, regardless of whether the person saying it is only “refining” until the next round of refinements. “Facts” which continually evolve are not facts. So coelecanths didn’t need to continue to evolve, even though in my parents day, they were considered a “Missing Link” and touted in schools as a long dead creature halfway between fish and land animal. They used to be the EXAMPLE of a missing link, now they are an animal that was so perfect it didnt need to change?


You can make facts say anything if you can ignore certain other facts. The earth really is the center of the universe. Consider, if EVERYTHING is in motion, then wherever you stick the pin will be the pivot point. Not that that’s fact, but you see my point. If Evolution is going to continually correct itself, at what point do real scientists say this is something we’re looking at but we just don’t know for sure. Ar ethere any “facts’ laid down in the Origin of Man that haven’t been “corrected”? I remind you again of the “Facts” scientists swore under penalty of perjury were true, though subsequent scientists “proved” otherwise. At least until they too were corrected. You were taught to believe these things regardless of how many “updates” are required to keep it from falling apart.


Evolution was designed to provide a beginning for atheists. Muslims who don’t believe in Creation have no business becoming angry at those who mock the Koran or their Prophet, both of which are false if evolution is true. I’m only saying it isn’t like the real sciences which haven’t hardly changed in a hundred years, and therefore shouldn’t be taught as science to young impressionable children who grow up believing it uncritically even though central tenents remain in motion. I mean central tenents. not things like natural or selective selection which are common to many theories.

06:18 PM Aug 31 2012 |